“After flying all day yesterday to get to Orlando, got a 6:30 am for the presentation at Grande Vista… I has told the person who contacted me trying to get me to go to the sale of the DC club that I was not interested because I have 3 post 6/20 weeks. ..

She actually called me back and said she checked with her manager and ALL my weeks were eligiable to be enrolled. I questioned her and reminder her that 3 weeks were post 6/20. She assured me that the manager was aware of that and had checked eligibility and they were all good.

How can you tell when a Marriott representative is lying on the phone? You can hear them!!

Get there at 7:45. Get assigned a salesperson at 8:10. Salesperson says to be 1 of only 2 sales reps that works with customers with 5 weeks or more. Sit down at 8:20 and I am told how every thing has now changed. As of January 1 the trust now owes all inventory at 31 resorts. NO more 24 day preference in II. Inventory has dried up as of yesterday! It is now all the new program! I had better get in now before the price sky rockets! 8:40 I cut him off, mention the trust documents state 11 resorts.

Tell him I know all I need to know and under no circumstance would I buy points. Tell him I am prepared to enroll my 5 weeks just like I talked to the person that called to schedule the meeting.

Surprise, surprise, my post 6/20 weeks are not eligiable. Now I am mad, I told him I wasted my morning because misinformation. He his to get a manager. Manager confirms post 6/20 weeks are not now and will not ever be eligible and tha “I must have misunderstood the sales person on the phone.”. Unbelievable!! They lie on the phone to get me in. Try and sell me points the tell me I was the uniformed one! 9:00am I end the meeting stating I will never attend another Marriott lie session and wouldn’t recommend Marriott to my worst enemy.

The say they are sorry and hope I will reconsider. Then say by the way no 15000 Marriott rewards points and no $25 Disney dollars because I did not finish the 90 minute lie session.

They have stooped to levels. They have become a desperate business. To bad. ” (via tugbbs.com/forums) by Wvacations TUG member (Timeshare Users Group)

Pointswizard.com Spin: Click here to read the rest of of the post - Are they now allowing post 6/20/10 weeks in? ( refers to date new program started and resale purchases) (above is from post #33)

Click for update 5 and links to earlier updates

“At Surf Watch HHI (Hilton Head Island) took the Tour to Learn Point Program….got the hard sell!..

We decided to have a presentation about the points program to fully learn it as our first impression was that it was a bad idea for us. All previous presentations with Marriott have been great and obviously, a few, successful.

My wife had tons of questions about exchanges and trading power, devaluation etc. The salesman really got irritated with her. She had some real points. Our Aruba week can trade for a week in Hawaii now, but in the points system would be unable to. Lockoffs would not work the same way. Weeks could also cost additional points in the future. Plus, we thought the prices were insane. 1500 points for $13200 and up from there! We decided the plan was not for us. He couldnt believe it and was rather pushy.

I think a lot of these sales folks have gone from selling a great product to selling this system that people arent buying into. They are frustrated.

(We also picked up some disappointment when he learned we were TUG people.)” (viatugbbs.com/forums) by Mr. Vker

Pointswizard.com Spin: Click here to read the 14 responses to this post so far.

Update 4

Update 3

Update 2

We decided to take the offer to learn about the new Marriott points system during our vacation. I’m a Tug (Timeshare Users group) reader but wanted to hear about the program from a Marriott Sales person before making a final decision. The salesperson brought up our Marriott Owner information. He looked at us and said “We are looking for high demand week owners at high demand resorts. What you own is not what Marriott is looking for. I have to keep you here 45mins to give you your gift for attending the presentation.”

I asked that I still would like to learn about the system so I could make that decision for ourselves. He handed me a binder to look through and said “this will start you off and I will be back in a few minutes” and walked out of the room. We sat there for 30mins before a lady walked in to say that she was here to check us out.

She wanted to take a survey on how the presentation went. I told her we never got a presentation. She kind of looked at me strangely and proceeded to ask the survey questions. I told her that I was very disappointed in Marriott in the way we have been treated. I told her I wanted to have someone from Marriott contact me so I could discuss our experience with them. They made us feel like we have a worthless timeshare week and that owners should not be treated this way.

I then completed an online complaint to Marriott to the resort and the Vacation Club. I also received an online survey from Marriott asking about our Vacation Points System presentation and another one for our stay at Marriott Ko Olina. I explained our experience and that I wanted a call from Marriott with an apology. It has now been 2 weeks and still no call from Marriott. How times have changed! Owning a week with Marriott is not what it used to be.  ” (via  tugbbs.com) by azmoats

Pointswizard.com Spin: Click here to read comments on this post from TUG readers /Bill Marriott should read this / Marriott Timeshare Owners furious over changes to program.

(read post #8, 15 17, 22, 23 for the Bill Marriott references) (like “Well he better get a better pair of reading glasses. There have been over 200 comments on the new Points system_on his blog_. The vast majority unfavorable? How has he reacted to this commentary?  by billymach4)

Click here to read another post (My Aruba Surf Club tour: “Stupid is as stupid does”about a points presentation at Marriott Aruba Surf Club.

WOW! -Who is training these people-How badly was this new program rollout planned? R.K.

update 3 - Click here

3rd Update

“Marriott’s full court press to sell Destinations Club is on.

I suspect that lots of MVC owners realize that Marriott is pushing really hard to convince legacy owners of the merits of joing the new Destination Club (DC) points program. I get a first hand look at just how hard Marriott is pushing during a recent visit to Ocean Pointe.

In this message, I will relate conversations I have with non-owner guests and MVC owners who do a sales presentation which is strictly aimed at promoting DC. Much of my “research” occurs at the Ocean Pointe bar where I chat with folks in the evening ( I’m a very skilled “researcher”  ). Although some of the folks I speak with may have morning after amnesia about our conversation, I remain steadfast and reasonably sober enough to relate their observations and responses to the new Marriott DC product and the sales pitch tossed at them. Once again, I emphasize that I do not personally speak with any sales associates this visit.

There’s lots of folks both at Ocean Pointe & Oceana Palms on discounted previews. At Ocean Pointe, we also find a lot of owners who like us, come down for a summer interlude in the crystal clear ocean and warm waters. We receive a call prior to our visit by a guest rep who checks with us about restaurants and other useful tidbits of info, but whose main purpose is to get us to sign up for a preview. Actually for an owner, it’s called an “information seminar about DC” whilst for non-owner walk-ins it’s a “sales preview” plain and simple. As as already noted, we had the interest, but my wife lacks the time to complete a session. Hence I turn towards other guests to catch up on their take of the preview and DC.

I have nice conversations with some 6 owners and an equal number of non-owners who share their thoughts with me ( none of these owners knew about TUG, but they do now ). Above all things, the owners are confused and a bit concerned about what Marriott is up to. The sales pitch is built around an “act sooner than later” mystique which emphasizes the “lower fees”. A couple of the owners were quick enough to realize that the lower fees only serve your interest if you’re a frequent trader an not a regular who most usually occupies at their home resort. They all figure out that they are being offered less DC points for their MVC week than they would need to reserve the full 7 days. A few do take notice of the flexibility of being able to sneak in a couple of days at different Marriott resorts. The basic sales pitch to owners was to suggest trying DC as the enrollment cost is cheap and one can still elect not to use their points and go the legacy MVC route instead ( why buy and pay for something you do not intend to use?). Some sales folks suggest that a multiple week owner take one of their “lesser” weeks and enroll it in DC. I can somewhat see the logic for this if one is a multiple week owner who might be a little stretched for time and they might toss a week in to nibble on fewer days — giving up some to get less, but at some very nice resorts. But then again, lots of TUGers practice the “buy where you will occupy regularly” catechism of timeshare, so this may not apply to all owners.

So the strategy for exisiting owners is “try it, you’ll like it” and to use your less favorite weeks for DC. There remains an implicit seed that these special enrollment prices might change after years’ end ( is Marriott getting that cheesy to resort to this used car sort of dealing ? ). None of the 6 owners I speak to really knew very much of the DC program specifics. They speak of being able to reserve 13 months out or do Marriott Rewards points, but no one goes into much detail about the 3 levels of ownership and how one needs to enroll resorts for their DC points. What they do not know is that the need to enroll the equivilant of MVC weeks totaling 13K DC points to hit the top tier which is the most flexible and offers the better DC points to MR points conversions. I don’t feel that sales was being evasive as much as the sales force is urgently trying to push/convince owners to drop one week into DC. A couple of owners were going to go home and deicde whether to enroll a week or two — these appear to me to be folks who were very fearful/uncertain about DC and see it as a beheamoth that is going to slowly strangle the MVC product so they prefer to bow to Gorgon now rather than later. The other owners are also uncertain, but they remain confused and reluctant to do anything at this moment.

Preview folks ( non-owners ) are being sold DC on a different basis. Sales folks are very aware that non-owners are extremely cost conscious, so the push is on for these folks to purchase 1500 DC points ( for $13800 ). The sweetener is a one time offer of 800 additional DC points good for this year. The emphasis here is upon flexibility and the ability to get into some surpurlative Marriott resorts — not a hard idea to sell for preview folks staying at Oceana Palms with the panoramic views of the ocean and inland waterway. Sounds to me as if Marriott is searching for a way to back away from the $30K to $50K price tags of traditional MVC developer weeks and to dangle the DC Club as a less expensive alternative to get into the door.

So I throw the gist of my recent conversations out here so that TUGers can see what folks are saying about Marriott and their first impressions of the Destinations Club.” (via tugbbs.com”) By Barry from a recent thread on Timeshare Users Group.

Pointswizard.com Spin: Click here to read the rest of this thread “Marriott’s Full Court Press for Destinations”

click here for previous update combining update 1 and 2

This company helps you rent or sell and get cash for your timeshare…

No obligation consultation…

A realtor does not have to have access to your property to show it…

Pointswizard.com Spin: Click here for more info on Sell or rent that unused timeshare now

Marriott made changes  and a large number of owners still know nothing about it ( no email or snail mail).

Still no notification to two friends who are Marriott owners and three readers who have emailed me. (it’s 3 weeks since change)

Those that have found out are writing about it in the comments section of Bill Marriott’s blog (in the beginning no negative comments were getting thru) and TUG (Timeshare Users Group).

They are confused because of a lack of answers from Marriott phone reps and Marriott’s own info that’s available. The program has changed from weeks to points.

Is Marriott trying to copy Starwood Vacation Ownership’s bungled change from last August?

Pointswizard.com Spin: Click here for Bill Marriott’s blog (scroll down for comments-now 5 pages -mostly negative)

Posts from TUG below

new Jul 13- Click here for Do you know how much you are getting skimmed?

new Jul13 – Click here for Marriott timeshare sells for $1

new Jul 13 – Click here for My Vacation advisor advises against joining!!!

new Jul 13 - Click here for Points presentation at Marriott Canyon Villas

click here for An open letter to Marriott

click here for Discussing The Actual (Real and Hidden) Costs of the Points System

click here for Resale Values Plunge

click here for Point System a DISASTER for me !!

click here for Marriott is Destroying Value of Existing Deeds

No obligation consultation…

A realtor does not have to have access to your property to show it…

Pointswizard.com Spin: Click here for more info on Sell or rent that unused timeshare now

This resort is less than 2 years old and it seems to still be in a shakedown mode…

Here were some of the problems…

-There is a need for more huts on the beach so one can be out of the sun..

-Both wired and wireless Wi-Fi was spotty at times, and wireless was a big problem in villa.

-The pool temperature needs to be hotter (it was chilly with few guests in the pool). Before our arrival we called 2 times and were told the pool was heated ( reviews on tripadvisor.com and tugbbs.com have pointed out the water seems not to be heated much)

-The water leak on to bathroom floor from shower has not been corrected. it is a very dangerous situation.

-The hot water was a problem every day for the shower-/sometimes hot sometimes cold-called front desk they said to run sink hot water at same time-it only worked to make it hot 1/2 of the time

-A number of times the operator took 20-30 rings to answer phone.

-When we entered room dishwasher had dishes and silverware in it.

-The breakfast buffet is a bit overpriced at 280 pesos for the selection of food that is being offered.

-The first 2 days the elevator closest to our room was down- no sign on it to tell you that it’s not working.

We wrote to the hotel to complain and they didn’t please us with their reply which was next time you come -”let us know whenever you have you reservation made so that we can take special care of your room assignment, cleaning and welcome amenity at your arrival”

When you stay at a resort for  8 days/7 nights you expect a better answer than that. Perhaps a refund of monies spent at resort or a complementary stay.

The resort is beautiful but problems like the above take away from the enjoyment of a vacation.

This property is part of Starwood Vacation Ownership (timeshare)but can be booked by anyone thru Westin or if you have a timeshare with Interval International.

added-

comment on this post on timeshareforums.com by GrayFal

“These are the SAME complaints owners have been making since day ONE.

Starwood – put a pool heater in, will ya!

Someone is going to kill themselves falling in the bathroom on those wet floors (at least they will die in a beautful but wet bathroom)

POOL Heater…..it is a no brainer – and you might want to heat the jacuzzi/whirlpool tubs as well.”

The way I see it, owners have three choices…

1. Sell your Starwood units and wipe your hands free of what I think is right now the worst timeshare developer in the country…

2. Do nothing as use the new system to their advantage as best they can. Owners could also use RCI and or rent the unit instead of using II…

3. Continue to fight,writing letters,sending emails, putting up websites and complaining every way possible…

Now – The details of my phone call with Starwood this past Friday…

Starwood is sticking to the belief that they have the right to control owner reservations that are given to II(Interval International)…

They refer to the Floating Use Plan Rules and Regulations as allowing them to do this. I have asked for a copy of this document and was told they will provide it.

Starwood refers to many owners making exchanges under the new system. Many owners may not be getting the same exchanges as in the past but are making exchanges…

There is supposed to be a 30 day preference period in Interval when trading back into your home resort or another SVO(Starwood Vacation Ownership) resort. Another words, for the first 30 days after a Starwood unit is deposited with II, it is only available to other Starwood owners. I explained that many owners are seeing different results and Starwood says they will look into it.

Starwood also thinks that the lack of a true request first really isnt an issue. A good way around this is to plan your requests a year in advance or more. For example, in January 2010, use your 2011 weeks to make a request for 2010.

Then if you dont get the exchange at the point in 2010 when you are one year from the most desirable weeks at your resort in 2011,you are free to cancel your exchange request and make a home resort reservation.

Currently Starwood is working on possibly splitting maintenance fees into more than one payment at some or all resorts to make it easier for owners to afford the fees.

They are also going to implement a rule in which exchange confirmations cannot be made until maintenance fees are paid. Owners will be able to make instant online exchanges and put in requests without advance payments but in order for an exchange to be confirmed, owners will need to pay the fees. For example, when you make an online exchange using II (Interval International), your exchange will be pending until your home resort usage is confirmed. If your fees arent paid your exchange will not be confirmed.

Please let me know your thoughts on this.

George

Pointswizard.com Spin: If you’d like to join the fight against Starwood email   Gcmarine@aol.com

update 1 Nov 4, 2009

original article  Sept. 21, 2009

No email or letter to owners telling them what going on(what are they afraid of ?) even though it’s a few months now…

Below is a link to a post on TUG (Timeshare Users Group) about “Starwood Timeshare units now selling for nothing “…

We again have to ask why is Starwood’s great reputation as a hotel company is being soiled by another division and does Starwood Corporate have any knowledge of what’s going on?…

If you are interested in joining the protest group email    gcmarine@aol.com

Pointswizard.com Spin: Click here for “Starwood Timeshare units now selling for nothing”

Original post on Starwood Screws Timeshare owners from Sept. 21st.