On Tuesday Lufthansa announced two new routes to North America out of Munich.

The first route is Munich to Mexico City, which they’ll operate 5x weekly starting April 3, 2014. The new route will be operated by an A340-600, and the schedule will look as follows:

LH520 Munich to Mexico City departing 10:25PM arriving 4:25AM (+1 day)
LH521 Mexico City to Munich departing 10:30AM arriving 5:10AM (+1 day)

Meanwhile they’ve also announced new service from Munich to Toronto, which they’ll operate daily starting June 5, 2014. The route will be operated by an A330-300, and the schedule will look as follows:

LH494 Munich to Toronto departing 11:55AM arriving 2:50PM
LH495 Toronto to Munich departing 5:45PM arriving 7:45AM (+1 day)

Anyway, in light of the upcoming United MileagePlus devaluation I know a lot of people are trying to redeem miles for travel on partner airlines, in particular for travel next summer to Europe. Award space is almost impossible to come by at this point.

But I have, really, really, really good news — there’s ridiculously good award space on the Toronto to Munich flight in both business and first class. That’s right, Lufthansa has released first class award space even to their partner airlines on this route. Keep in mind that Lufthansa usually only releases first class award space to partner airlines 15 days out, so I’m not sure why the space is available this far out. Something similar happened about a month ago, where Star Alliance carriers had access to Lufthansa first class award space over a small period of time between Montreal and Munich.

Obviously this is especially timely, with so many people wanting to burn their United miles before the devaluation.

The flight is scheduled to be operated by an A330-300 featuring Lufthansa’s new first and business class.

Lufthansa A330 new first class

Looking at award space in business class from Toronto to Munich, the below dates in green are ones with nonstop business class award space:



I conveniently left out one detail — that’s the availability when searching for eight passengers per flight.

I also see at least four first class award seats available per flight.

So literally almost every single date has at least eight business class award seats and four first class award seats to Europe over summer, which is amazingI’ve called United and Aeroplan to verify the space is actually available and that it’s not phantom space, and it is indeed available.

As a reminder, under their current award charts, the cost to book Lufthansa first class is as follows:

United MileagePlus:
50,000 miles one-way in business class
67,500 miles one-way in first class

Air Canada Aeroplan (fuel surcharges apply):
90,000 miles roundtrip in business class
125,000 miles roundtrip in first class

AviancaTaca Lifemiles:
52,500 miles one-way in business class
72,500 miles one-way in first class

US Airways Dividend Miles (first class space blocked):
100,000 miles roundtrip in business class

Anyway, if you’re trying to redeem your United miles or have been trying to go to Europe over summer on Star Alliance, this new route is a phenomenal new option.

Lastly, while not nearly as exciting by comparison, the new Mexico City route also has good business class award space three days a week through the end of schedule. Unfortunately there doesn’t seem to be any first class award space, however.


If you’re looking to book first class to Europe this summer, book now. This won’t last.

If you need a refresher as to how to book awards using United miles I’d recommend the following posts:

As always I’m more than happy to answer questions in the comments section, or if you need more detailed help booking and are ready to pull the trigger, feel free to check out our award consulting service, PointsPros.

(Tip of the hat to Ed and CFFrost)

  1. November 7th, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    James said,

    Would this allow access to FCT as the flights from FRA to MUC would be business class?

  2. November 7th, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    lucky said,

    @ James — Absolutely, if you book FRA-MUC-YYZ you’d get FCT access in Frankfurt and FCL access in Munich. Alternatively if you booked YYZ-MUC-FRA-XYZ you’d get FCL access in Munich and FCT access in Frankfurt.

  3. November 7th, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    CFFrost said,

    Glad I just got off the phone to confirm my ticket changes! That award space may be gone in an hour . . .

    For a couple seated in the center seats – do you think there is a difference between first and second row?

  4. November 7th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    lucky said,

    @ CFFrost — Hah, great find and happy you were able to confirm! Both rows are great, though I have a slight preference for the second row as it feels a bit more spacious since the galley display isn’t immediately in front.

  5. November 7th, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    JB said,

    Thanks Lucky! I just got that pesky summer award ticket booked!


  6. November 7th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    Mr. Cool said,

    what if i need to change dates after feb 1, 2014?
    would i then be subject to post feb 1, 2014 award redemption rates?

  7. November 7th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    CFFrost said,

    Hm. Good to know!

    My full itin. is SAN-LHR (Stop), LHR-CPT, CPT-SAN. I had given up on LHF with the devaluation, then was absolutely shocked to see this!

    The outbound routing was absolutely absurd to make YYZ-MUC work (two overnight flights, a 7 hr layover in SFO and a 12 hr laver at YYZ), but I figure it’s worth it at least once. I have the return booked in TK Business (IST-IAH) and I don’t think I’m gonna change that. On the way back I’ll prioritize efficiency – plus I’ll get ~7hrs in the TK business lounge.

    Though I will look to see if connections from mexico city make the return palatable . . .

  8. November 7th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

    lucky said,

    @ JB — Woohoo, happy to hear!

  9. November 7th, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Mr. Cool — If you need to change dates after the devaluation you wouldn’t have to pay the new award rates assuming you don’t change your routing. If you change your routing the award will be repriced.

  10. November 7th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Simon said,

    Ben (or anyone else) – I cannot for the life of me get Firefox to return any multi-destination itins. I’ve tried IE as well.

    Anyone else have the same issues; or had, and has been able to circumvent the issue?


  11. November 7th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    lucky said,

    @ CFFrost — Nice routing, and happy you’ll get to experience Lufthansa first class! Since they don’t release first class on the Mexico City route, you’re probably better off just sticking to Turkish.

  12. November 7th, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Simon — Are you getting an error message or it’s just returning you to the same page? Had the latter happen yesterday in Firefox, and using Chrome did the trick.

  13. November 7th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    CFFrost said,

    Yea. Now the only thing I’m trying to figure out is CPT/JNB-IST which is currently in economy. That’s a long haul in X. There has been VERY limited space on JNB-ZHR and I’m hoping some will open up on the days I need. We’ll see.

    Also a little apprehensive about ET connection through ADD on the way to JNB – but I figured at least its on the 787 so can’t be that bad (in theory).

  14. November 7th, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Ken said,

    so it is gone? Nothing came up :(

  15. November 7th, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    acs said,

    Hey Ben,

    Would a routing like this give me access to FCT in FRA? I’ve heard the rule is “must have a LH F flight ahead of you”. So I guess it would?

    BKK-FRA (TG F)
    FRA-MUC (LH J)
    MUC-MEX (LH F)


  16. November 7th, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Ken — Still works for me. Where is nothing coming up for you?

  17. November 7th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    Updates in 60 Seconds or Less: SPG Points on Sale, Free 2 Day Shipping with Amex Cards, and More! - Mommy Points said,

    […] reports that there is very good Lufthansa first class space available on a new route from Toronto – Munich for next ….  This is pretty huge for those who want to use their United miles to get to Europe this way […]

  18. November 7th, 2013 at 3:47 pm

    lucky said,

    @ acs — Assuming the Frankfurt to Munich and Munich to Mexico City flight are the same day, then yes, you’d have FCT access. That being said, Lufthansa isn’t releasing first class award space to partner airlines on that route, unlike the Toronto route.

  19. November 7th, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    Lantean said,

    trying many ways to do VIE-MUC-YYZ-EWR but it always crashes.

  20. November 7th, 2013 at 3:48 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Lantean — You can always ticket Munich to Toronto first, and then call United to add the other segments. If you do it within 24 hours there would be no change fee.

  21. November 7th, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    troy said,

    too bad this isnt in May closer to memorial day holiday. Im going to paris from ord and I really cant get anything on this due to the dates. Thanks for letting everyone know tho! awesome!

  22. November 7th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    Tom said,


    If I book the YYZ-MUC leg online now, can I call and add a connection to get to YYZ from my home airport (SFO) later?


  23. November 7th, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    Book Your Family Now on Lufthansa First Next Summer! - Mommy Points said,

    […] Via Lucky, there is insanely good award space available right now on a new Toronto – Munich flight in Lufthansa First Class (or business class for that matter).  The route starts June 5th and he (and I) am seeing at least 8 first class award seats available on many, many days.  This doesn’t really ever happen as Lufthansa usually only releases space bookable with United miles 2 weeks out, if ever.  Here were my results when searching for four seats next summer – wide open!  And, he states it isn’t phantom space, but real bookable space.  I don’t have the time to call myself right now and try, but I trust him on this one. […]

  24. November 7th, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Tom – Absolutely. If you do it within 24 hours there would be no change fee.

  25. November 7th, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    Henry said,

    Is it possible to add on segments later to take advantage of the stopover rules?

  26. November 7th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Simon said,

    Could not get a positioning flight to ORD (found ORD-MUC on 9/5/14) it keeps returning an error.

    I guess all I can do is follow the advice you have Lantean.

  27. November 7th, 2013 at 4:02 pm

    Eugene said,

    Thanks for the heads up.

    This should work right?


    On hold with an agent who is trying to book it but pricing as 2 awards.

  28. November 7th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Henry – Yes, and within 24 hours there would be no change fee.

  29. November 7th, 2013 at 4:04 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Simon – You can try using the multi-city tool, but that’s not unusual. You can always change/cancel within 24 hours!

  30. November 7th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    flyerdude88 said,

    Ahh thank you Lucky!!! Just was able to re-route my trip to Europe next summer to grab the LH F from YYZ both ways, now just need to call in and add a DCA/IAD leg but the LH F is in there, that was the important bit!

  31. November 7th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Eugene – You’re generally not allowed to route to Australia via Europe, so my guess is that’s why it’s pricing as two awards. If you take out the segments to Sydney it should price.

  32. November 7th, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    tri said,

    @lucky – my flight iah-yyz-muc-otp; the muc to otp segment is in economy. the horror, i know. but yyz-muc is first class. can i still access FCT? Thanks for the heads up. i only have 80k points but this is the best way to burn them!

  33. November 7th, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    AT said,

    “@ Mr. Cool — If you need to change dates after the devaluation you wouldn’t have to pay the new award rates assuming you don’t change your routing. If you change your routing the award will be repriced.”

    kind of inline with what Mr. Cool asked…what if you want to change an LH flight from J to F post-deval, would you have to pay the new price?

  34. November 7th, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    Ezeiza said,

    Very strange. The LH flight between YYZ and MUC does not show in the ANA tool.

  35. November 7th, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    Jamie said,

    @Simon @Lucky I’m getting same error trying to build even the simplist multi-destination itinerary. Says not able to find award flights even though I know space is there.

  36. November 7th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    lucky said,

    @ AT — Yes, you would have to pay the new first class price.

  37. November 7th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    smitty06 said,

    Just booked my sister’s honeymoon to Europe. Hooray!. Suck it United.

  38. November 7th, 2013 at 4:11 pm

    lucky said,

    @ tri — You sure can use the FCT assuming you’re connecting same day. Enjoy the trip!

  39. November 7th, 2013 at 4:12 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Jamie — I’d definitely try booking by phone then.

  40. November 7th, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    tri said,

    @lucky – im not ashamed to tell you, i just wet my pants.

  41. November 7th, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    lucky said,

    @ tri — Not the reaction I try to elicit with the blog, but I’ll take it. :D

  42. November 7th, 2013 at 4:16 pm

    Andrei said,

    Does the YYZ-MUC A330 feature the new F? Which F config is it?

  43. November 7th, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Andrei — Yes it’s the new first class. The same one I wrote about here:

  44. November 7th, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    MEOW said,

    This is the reason why you are THE best Lucky.

  45. November 7th, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    scibuff said,

    Guys, the multi-destination search sometime doesn’t work correctly (it doesn’t see all the options you’d get searching segment by segment).

    But, if you get segment by segment availability, and the route is valid*, you can call United Reservations and the agent will be able to price it for you.

    Then just ask to have the phone booking fee waived as the itinerary wasn’t bookable online.

    * just remember, you cannot route US to Australia via Europe (that would throw an error) you CAN do US-Europe(stopover)-Asia(destination)-US so you can do an RTW in the business class for 120,000 miles (with ONE stopover in Europe and a destination in Asia)

  46. November 7th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    Jason said,


    Can you fly LH F JFK-FRA 2 week stop in FRA then FRA -NRT on LH F with 70k UA Miles?

  47. November 7th, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Jason — On a one-way award you’re not allowed a stopover of more than 24 hours. On a roundtrip you’re allowed one stopover, though.

  48. November 7th, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    Ozaer N. said,

    Ben…is it possible to book the YYZ-MUC segment so I dont lose it and then book the other segments later? Entering PDX as the origin didnt get me anything.

  49. November 7th, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Ozaer N. — You sure can! Just lock in that segment now, and within 24 hours you can add other segments at no additional cost (or you can pay a change fee to add segments after that).

  50. November 7th, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Jason said,

    Hmm…not sure it I’m too late, but I literally checked every single day with availability in first/business (green/blue on UA website) for the MEX-MUC flight in May, June, *and* July, and plenty have business availability, but not a single FC opening.

    Is it possible every single FC ticket got booked in under 2 hours since posting? (I highly doubt it but who knows with the pending devaluation to star dust). Or was there just little to no FC availability on that flight to begin with?

    Even though I’m based in FL, I’d much rather do a <24 hr stop in the west somewhere, and do the MEX-MUC flight (versus YYZ-MUC), since it's showing as almost 12 hours versus 8 – what can I say, I want to enjoy every minute I can :)

    Anybody finding FC availability from MEX?

  51. November 7th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Jason — As I said in the post, they never released any first class award space to Mexico City — only to Toronto.

  52. November 7th, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    Ozaer N. said,

    Whats LH’s policy regarding kids in F? I got twins who will be 10 months old by then?

  53. November 7th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    Andrei said,

    Lucky, if I do FRA-MUC in biz and then MUC-YYZ in F, do I still get to use FCT in FRA?

  54. November 7th, 2013 at 4:43 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Andrei — If you fly it same day, yes.

  55. November 7th, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Ozaer N. — You’re allowed lap children, but you would have to pay an infant fare, which would be 10% of the cost of a revenue ticket in the cabin you’re flying (which can get pretty pricey in first class).

  56. November 7th, 2013 at 4:49 pm

    Tyson said,

    Darnit, I just booked another trip earlier this week and am 16k miles short of changing me and my wife’s existing flights to first class. Hope availability is still there when my October UR statement posts or someone offers to spot me the points.

  57. November 7th, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    S said,

    Lucky, US Air agents tell me they cannot find LH seats. Is this true or I should keep calling until I find an agent who can help?

  58. November 7th, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    avery said,

    on phone with aeroplan… they’re saying cant book, flight doest exist.

  59. November 7th, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    lucky said,

    @ S – Sometimes they don’t have access to the same space as the rest of Star Alliance for some reason. They should be able to see the Business class seats though, so I’d keep trying.

  60. November 7th, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    architrekt said,

    I was actually able to get a confirmed LH first flight on all long haul sements BKK-FRA-MUC-YYZ when I booked. Anyone else?

  61. November 7th, 2013 at 4:55 pm

    lucky said,

    @ avery – That’s interesting, what date are you looking at?

  62. November 7th, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    AdamH said,

    I just have no clue what I will be doing next summer. Seems like a waste not to book something on the other hand. Oh if I was not at work.

  63. November 7th, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    avery said,

    July 4… they played around with other dates… they said it shows as available, then when they try to direct book, they get an error that flight isn’t operating. I’m trying it on aeroplan.com and am gettign errors.

  64. November 7th, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    Book Now! Lufthansa First Class Award For Next Summer With United Miles! - Delta Points said,

    […] go to my fellow BoardingArea.com blogger BEN’s web site and read his post as I just burned my last 270,000 Mileage-Poo miles for two Lufthansa 1st class […]

  65. November 7th, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    lucky said,

    @ avery – Hmmm. Maybe try a different agent, and see if they can look at look at booking it manually.

  66. November 7th, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    Jason said,

    @ lucky – derrrr, long day, went back and re-read it and evidently I can’t even be spoonfed today…sorry about that ;-)

    One quick question – I’d like to do the US to SE Asia by way of Europe, then back home to the US via the pacific (around the world) – as long as I can find saver availability on all flights, I’m looking at 140k round trip for FC (since some flights are 3 cabin), correct?

    It looks like I’ll definitely have to call in; as soon as I do multiple destination (YYZ-MUC then MUC-FRA) it errors out. My hope is to snag MCO-YYZ-MUC-FRA-BKK-USM, then head back with a stop in HKG or SIN. What’s the final word on max number of hops – is everyone stuck at a max of 4 legs in each direction now?

  67. November 7th, 2013 at 5:24 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Jason — Correct, it’ll cost you 140K miles in first class the whole way.

    Five segments in each direction seems possible on a roundtrip award to Southeast Asia.

  68. November 7th, 2013 at 5:26 pm

    Avery said,

    The flight isn’t properly loaded… you can’t even buy a paid ticket oh lh.com I think all ticketed flights will be rejected (they’re allowed to within 48hrs)

  69. November 7th, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    SAVER 1st class seats on Lufhansa with UA points summer 2014 - FlyerTalk Forums said,

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  70. November 7th, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    Jason said,

    Thanks Lucky. The website was buggy for me on multiple destinations so I followed your advice and booked YYZ-MUC::FRA-MUC-YYZ and then called in to add my connecting flights to and from YYZ.

  71. November 7th, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    AdamH said,

    Also, keep in mind that these are essentially locked after the rates go up as any changes will result in the award being repriced.

  72. November 7th, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    Delta Points said,

    Ben THANK YOU SO MUCH! You so rock Bro! I get one more trip in 1st class and 8 hrs in a 1st class lounge to enjoy! :-)

  73. November 7th, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    Michael said,

    How many segments allowed on a one way? RT?

  74. November 7th, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    Ben Skelton said,

    I called in to Aeroplan. No go. I even escalated it to a supervisor. They see one space available in F but when they try to click it they don’t get anything and when he went to the other system they use the flight didn’t even appear there.

    Perhaps it takes a day for availability to be released or updated in their system. So strange. The Aeroplan supervisor said that he would file a ticket.

  75. November 7th, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Michael — Typically four on a one way and five per direction on a roundtrip.

  76. November 7th, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    George said,

    Hi Lucky,

    Any chance using USDM for the first class flights? Or has USDM completely ruled out LH F now?


  77. November 7th, 2013 at 5:42 pm

    lucky said,

    @ George — I’ve called US Airways and unfortunately they don’t seem to have access to any space on that flight, even in business class. :(

  78. November 7th, 2013 at 5:44 pm

    Tom said,

    Thanks for the tip, Lucky. Just booked three seats in first for a trip next September!

  79. November 7th, 2013 at 5:46 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Tom — Enjoy! :)

  80. November 7th, 2013 at 5:51 pm

    blue_diamond said,

    Thanks, Lucky!!!!!!! You made my week. I’m so happy.

    I booked YYZ-MUC (overnight) MUC-FRA-BKK.

    I’m guessing I won’t have access to the FCT. A bit bummed but woudl rather overnight MUC to break the flight. Any suggestions?

    Going back I have BKK-CDG (stopover) MUC YYZ.

  81. November 7th, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    lucky said,

    @ blue_diamond — Awesome itinerary! Yeah, unless you’re flying in Lufthansa first class same day you won’t have access to the FCT unfortunately. On the return you could do BKK-CDG-FRA, overnight, and then FRA-MUC-YYZ. Then you could use the FCT if you wanted to.

  82. November 7th, 2013 at 5:54 pm

    Joeb C said,


    I tried doing IAH-YYZ-MUC-BKK-HKG and its not pricing. Do you happen to know why?

    Does it have to be roundtrip?

  83. November 7th, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Joeb C — That should be fine, the website just isn’t good at pricing such complicated itineraries. I’d suggest booking what you can (maybe just Houston to Munich), and then calling in to add the other segments. If you do it within 24 hours there won’t be any change fee.

  84. November 7th, 2013 at 6:08 pm

    BTM said,

    I booked on LH business for MUC-YUL last week. Is business class for MUC-YYZ different or better? It looks like LF flights the same A330. In term of change fee, what would it cost to change from MUC-YUL business to MUC-YYZ 1st? Thanks.

  85. November 7th, 2013 at 6:09 pm

    lucky said,

    @ BTM — It’s the same business class product. To upgrade to first class you’d pay 17,500 miles plus a $100 change fee assuming you’re a non-elite.

  86. November 7th, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    CFFrost said,

    Hey Lucky –

    One last question for you. My booking does not list an aircraft type, even though the search results list the A330-300.

    Also, it lists YYZ-MUC flight time as 7hrs, even though search results indicate 8.

    Ever see this? I’m concerned it might not have ticketed properly.


  87. November 7th, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    lucky said,

    @ CFFrost — You have nothing to worry about. Time/aircraft type errors are common on united.com.

  88. November 7th, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    Delta Points said,

    Gosh it is silly they want to charge me $13 for EC+ when in 1st rest of trip for SBN-ORD part (15min flight)

  89. November 7th, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    Lantean said,

    Stupid United website can’t even price out YYZ-MUC-BKK… wth? :(

  90. November 7th, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Lantean — I’d recommend just booking Toronto to Munich online and then calling to add the segment to Bangkok.

  91. November 7th, 2013 at 6:32 pm

    CubsGirl said,

    Hmmm. Just got confirmation email. LH flights say “operated by United.” Think I might have just gotten hosed.

  92. November 7th, 2013 at 6:34 pm

    lucky said,

    @ CubsGirl — Sounds like a United IT glitch. If the flight is from Toronto to Munich it’s operated by Lufthansa.

  93. November 7th, 2013 at 6:35 pm

    jackie said,

    If I book the ticket, and decide to cancel it within 24 hours, do I incur any charge? Thank you!

  94. November 7th, 2013 at 6:36 pm

    troy said,

    considered changing my ORD-(united)FRA-BKK to ORD-YYZ-MUC-FRA-BKK but i feel like its just to many connections to try the LH F and I think would have to pay a change fee for this too right? Not sure its worth it.

  95. November 7th, 2013 at 6:36 pm

    lucky said,

    @ jackie — No, you don’t incur any fees.

  96. November 7th, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    lucky said,

    @ troy — You’d have to pay a $100 change fee. I think it’s worth it for the experience, but if you value direct travel more than the United option is probably better.

  97. November 7th, 2013 at 6:37 pm

    max said,

    is this booked via Lufthansa’s website or United’s?

  98. November 7th, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    lucky said,

    @ max — You have to book via United’s website.

  99. November 7th, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    Ken Y. said,

    What if you do
    YYZ-MUC (LH F), then same day
    MUC-FRA (LH C), then same day
    FRA-PEK (CA F)

    Will you have access to FCT in FRA prior to your CA F flight? Will they drive you there too?

  100. November 7th, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Ken Y. — You’ll have access to the Lufthansa First Class Lounge in Munich and Frankfurt, but not the First Class Terminal.

  101. November 7th, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Ken Y. said,

    Also, the four-segment each way really kills it. I flew seven segments on one way and did one TG and two LH F routes just before it died.

  102. November 7th, 2013 at 6:43 pm

    Ken Y. said,

    Got it. Then this will only be useful for Asia->NA. Booking two…

  103. November 7th, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    michael said,

    I booked the yyz-muc segment in first but when I called in they told me I can only do the muc-cdg in economy even though there is availability in first. Why is that?

  104. November 7th, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    jackie said,

    @lucky — thanks so much. Right now, my reservation is on hold since I don’t have enough miles yet. I am transferring it from chase in the next hour or so, that should be ok, right? thanks again.

  105. November 7th, 2013 at 6:45 pm

    lucky said,

    @ michael — Assuming there’s saver business class award space it can definitely be in business class. I’d recommend hanging up and calling again.

  106. November 7th, 2013 at 6:46 pm

    lucky said,

    @ jackie — Probably. Theoretically if it’s not ticketed yet the space can be pulled, but you should be fine. I’d transfer as soon as possible.

  107. November 7th, 2013 at 6:48 pm

    Kirby A said,

    Are stopovers and/or open jaws allowed on one-way itineraries?

  108. November 7th, 2013 at 6:48 pm

    Lufthansa First Class–Why You Shouldn’t “Get Rid” Of 300,000 United Miles - Points Miles and Martinis said,

    […] normally have done. And just my luck, this week Lucky posts about the great availability on one of LH’s new routes to Munich. Not the first bonehead move I’ve made, and likely not the last. But I’m satisfied, enough. Who […]

  109. November 7th, 2013 at 6:48 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Kirby A — With United you’re not allowed stopovers of more than 24 hours on a one-way award.

  110. November 7th, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    Kirby A said,

    Thanks for the quick response. Unfortunately that kills this deal for me since I don’t have enough UA miles and UR points to do the whole round trip.

  111. November 7th, 2013 at 7:01 pm

    mangoceviche said,

    I booked US to MUC online and called to add MUC-FRA-BKK-KIX, agent is telling me it’s going to cost addl 42K miles bc i m stopping in diff regions even tho all less than 24hrs. is she right?

  112. November 7th, 2013 at 7:03 pm

    lucky said,

    @ mangoceviche — If you’re originating in the US it sounds like you’d be exceeding the segment limit. You can only do four segments on a one way award.

  113. November 7th, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    blue_diamond said,

    Thanks, Ben. I’m not sure FCT is worth the hassle. :-P Can I use the MUC lounge upon arriving even if I’m overnighting MUC. I’ve been to the MUC lounge and thought it was really nice. Enjoyed the restaurant. :)

  114. November 7th, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    Pablo said,

    Thanks Lucky!!! I just ticketed PEK-BKK-FRA-MUC-YYZ, I AM SO EXCITED!!!! SOOOO looking forward to the trip. Thanks sooooooooo much for the heads up!

  115. November 7th, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    lucky said,

    @ blue_diamond — Yep, you sure can! Enjoy the trip!

  116. November 7th, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    michael said,

    Lucky, called back and now I’m told since I already have 1 stopover “its kind of like a differnt ticket” so itll be 17500 for business…

  117. November 7th, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Pablo — Sounds awesome, enjoy the trip!

  118. November 7th, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    lucky said,

    @ michael — What’s the entire itinerary? You only mentioned the YYZ to MUC segment.

  119. November 7th, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    Antonio said,

    @mangoceviche – that counts as an Asia ticket, not a Europe ticket. I just tried something similar recently and this found out.

  120. November 7th, 2013 at 7:09 pm

    michael said,


  121. November 7th, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    lucky said,

    @ michael — If you’re not stopping anywhere for more than 24 hours then it’s a valid one-way.

  122. November 7th, 2013 at 7:11 pm

    michael said,

    Lol Ok let’s try this again… :-)

  123. November 7th, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    Ryan said,


    Just wanted you to know and the other readers that LH just released space on its 747-8 flight into ORD for 11/19-21. I just snatched the seat for the 18th after united.com showed the phantom availability last night for my orig booking into JFK. Should I be able to call United and have them tag a flight back to my home airport? Once you know to navigate the ANA site, it’s really the best.

  124. November 7th, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    mangoceviche said,

    One more question – I dropped the BKK-KIX segment and it wouldn’t price. it’s actually pretty comical if i weren’t so frustrated – first the agent said i am travelling through too many regions (which turns out she’s right) and then she said us-yyz-muc-fra-bkk (4 segments) isn’t pricing because i need to travel to a destination in north asia for it to price. am i missing something?

  125. November 7th, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    Greg said,

    Couldn’t one theoretically book SFO-YYZ-MUC now, and then 15 days out once SFO-MUC direct opens, change it without penalty (other than close in change fee)?

  126. November 7th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Ryan — Yep, if there’s award space you should be able to add on the tag flight without paying a change fee if you ticketed within 24 hours.

  127. November 7th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    Flora said,

    Trying to book a Lufthansa First Class from SFO to CDG. Called the United agent to check from SFO-MUC-CDG. Was told there were no award availability. I have a feeling that she might not know how to put in a search. Anyone, please help?

  128. November 7th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    lucky said,

    @ mangoceviche — No, you’re not missing anything, sounds like you got a bad agent. Where in the US are you originating?

  129. November 7th, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Greg — United has said that after the devaluation only a date change wouldn’t trigger the number of miles required to be repriced. Apparently changing routing would trigger a change in price.

  130. November 7th, 2013 at 7:24 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Flora — Have you found the individual flights that have space on your own (like San Francisco to Toronto to Munich to Paris)? If so, give the agent those flights numbers when you call in to book.

  131. November 7th, 2013 at 7:36 pm

    Maury said,

    Just booked MIA-JRO in business on Lufthansa. Flying A380 & A340 for second time.

  132. November 7th, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    mangoceviche said,

    you were right; i got a bad agent. called again and this agent was able to price my itinerary – does $138 in taxes sound right to you? my routing is bos-yyz-muc-fra-bkk. THANK YOU SO MUCH LUCKY!! I can’t wait to experience LH F and FCT.

  133. November 7th, 2013 at 7:40 pm

    lucky said,

    @ mangoceviche — Woohoo, awesome! Enjoy the trip. Yep, the taxes sound about right.

  134. November 7th, 2013 at 7:43 pm

    Lantean said,


    btw, I also see Lufthansa F FRA-BKK available on 10/10/2014… is that normal?

  135. November 7th, 2013 at 7:44 pm

    JohnK said,

    KVS tool doesn’t show me any LH flights during those dates from YYZ-MUC. Do you see them on KVS? Where did you search?

    Also, can you backtrack with Aeroplan?

  136. November 7th, 2013 at 7:46 pm

    lucky said,

    @ JohnK — I assume you have KVS pulling space from the ANA website? For what it’s worth ANA doesn’t show this space (or the route at all, for that matter). I’m using the United website to search for space.

    Aeroplan doesn’t let you exceed the MPM by more than 5%, so whether or not you backtrack depends on the route.

  137. November 7th, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Lantean — Hmm, very interesting. ANA can’t search space that far out, so wonder whether it’s phantom space or not.

  138. November 7th, 2013 at 7:50 pm

    JohnK said,

    Yes, I have KVS pulling from ANA. Also, I searched Expertflyer and I see nothing.

    Re: AP. So as long as you don’t exceed MPM, backgtracking is ok? Also, where can I calculate MPM?

  139. November 7th, 2013 at 7:51 pm

    Lantean said,


    so would you rather do MUC-FRA-BKK on Lufthansa A340 with a few hours in the terminal or is it better MUC-CDG-BKK on Thai A380?
    Thank you.

  140. November 7th, 2013 at 7:51 pm

    lucky said,

    @ JohnK — Right, this only seems to be bookable with United still. With Aeroplan as long as you don’t exceed MPM by more than 5% you’re fine. I use ExpertFlyer to calculate MPM.

  141. November 7th, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Lantean — I’d probably do the Thai A380. I love the A380 onboard experience, so seems worth it to do a bit of both carriers.

  142. November 7th, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    Lantean said,

    OK, thanks Ben, that’s the way I was leaning already anyway… ;)
    Not a fan of A340 to be honest.

  143. November 7th, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    TopGunner said,

    So if I get this correctly, booking and F award with YYZ-MUC connecting to LH C to a destination without F available at present, I would be open to repricing if I later changed that LH C to an open F seat, e.g. FRA-BKK? Does the class of travel change on the same flight trigger a ticket reissue therefore requiring the repricing even for an already existing F award? Highly unfair by UA, BA didn’t do that when they did their devaluation, as long as it was an F award you had more flexibility to adjust your award within the routing limitation.

  144. November 7th, 2013 at 8:02 pm

    MillValleyMom said,

    I don’t want to knock your hat tip to CFFrost, but shouldn’t the credit go to @ed who brought this to your attention in comment #9465 in your “Ask Lucky” section? Just curious.

  145. November 7th, 2013 at 8:08 pm

    lucky said,

    @ TopGunner — To be honest I’m not positive, I’m just going off of what United said. I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t trigger a reprice, but officially they said only date changes wouldn’t trigger a reprice, and I don’t want to give wrong information.

  146. November 7th, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    lucky said,

    @ MillValleyMom — Whoops, you’re absolutely right, my mistake. I’ve added Ed to the hat tip. My apologies, Ed, looks like I got a bit excited!

  147. November 7th, 2013 at 8:11 pm

    TopGunner said,

    @ Lucky – I certainly understand your caution. I guess we will all have to push United to be clearer on this and to also take a consumer friendly position, which we know is something they are showing themselves to not be able to really do.

  148. November 7th, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    Lantean said,


    so I can book flights up to 10/10/2014 right now… If I book it today will I be able to add a MUC-BKK flight on 10/11/2013 to it tomorrow? or what time does the schedule open for the 330th day out?
    thank you.

  149. November 7th, 2013 at 8:13 pm

    Lantean said,

    sorry, meant 10/11/2014

  150. November 7th, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Lantean — Assuming they open up space you absolutely can. If you it’s within 24 hours of ticketing there won’t be a change fee, though after 24 hours you’d have to pay a change fee.

  151. November 7th, 2013 at 8:15 pm

    Lufthansa First Class Awards Available (Using United Miles) Next Summer - View from the Wing - View from the Wing said,

    […] Munch flight has outstanding availability in first class for next summer — most days even (as Lucky was first to write) — as many as four seats per flight. And it’s expected to be operated by an aircraft […]

  152. November 7th, 2013 at 8:18 pm

    Lantean said,

    ok, thanks Ben. it’s time to book all these trips before some nice lady from Lufthansa gets to her office and sees all the bookings… at least they will be able to say that people were really interested in their MUC-YYZ flight and it completely sold out in F!

  153. November 7th, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    jackie said,

    @Lucky — I am now trying to add SFO-YYZ but there is no saver award availability online for any class. What will happen to my booking then if I want to add the connection? More miles, or ?

  154. November 7th, 2013 at 8:21 pm

    lucky said,

    @ jackie — If you’re able to add the segment before February 1 you would just pay the change fee and mileage would stay the same. If you add it after February 1 the new mileage rates would apply.

  155. November 7th, 2013 at 8:23 pm

    TopGunner said,

    Well, I pulled the trigger before LH backoffice and rev management open up shortly. I figured with the United repricing uncertainty I can always take TG F from BKK to FRA on the A380 instead of LH C. I believe I should still have FRA FCT access with same day 1st class departure in MUC.

  156. November 7th, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    jackie said,

    What if I want to add the segment today? how many miles will it be priced, say I chose the economy?

  157. November 7th, 2013 at 8:24 pm

    lucky said,

    @ TopGunner — Nice itinerary! If you do FRA-MUC-YYZ same day you do indeed get FCT access in Frankfurt.

  158. November 7th, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    lucky said,

    @ jackie — Well if there’s not any saver level award space then it would just be cumulative pricing. You’d pay for however many miles they’re charging between those cities at the standard level.

  159. November 7th, 2013 at 8:27 pm

    jackie said,

    I booked YYZ-MUC first class round trip @130k, now, adding SFO-YYZ round trip with YYZ being the stopover. If SFO-YYZ does not have saver award availability, how many miles would it be if I add economy anytime.

  160. November 7th, 2013 at 8:31 pm

    lucky said,

    @ jackie — United’s standard coach award rate between San Francisco and Toronto is 25,000 miles one-way in coach and 50,000 miles one-way in first class. That being said, you really shouldn’t have that much trouble finding saver space. Have you looked at options with a connection?

  161. November 7th, 2013 at 8:56 pm

    Ken Y. said,

    I just burned 280k UR points for four flights to Asia and a total of 12 F segments.

  162. November 7th, 2013 at 8:57 pm

    TopGunner said,

    Just wondering, does United allow routing N. America to S. America via Europe? May use this award to go to World Cup rather than speculatively to Asia.

  163. November 7th, 2013 at 8:58 pm

    lucky said,

    @ TopGunner — They don’t, unfortunately.

  164. November 7th, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    mile tweets | Book Your Family Now on Lufthansa First Next Summer! said,

    […] Via Lucky, there is insanely good award space available right now on a new Toronto – Munich flight in Lufthansa First Class (or business class for that matter). The route starts June 5th and he (and I) am seeing at least 8 first class award seats available …read more […]

  165. November 7th, 2013 at 9:04 pm

    michael said,

    Lucky, 3rd agent was the charm. Just booked One way ORD-YYZ-MUC-CDG. (I’ll worry how to get back later).

  166. November 7th, 2013 at 9:05 pm

    lucky said,

    @ michael — Nice, happy to hear you were finally able to book!

  167. November 7th, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    Michael said,

    Lucky, Aeroplan agents say “the flight is an Air Canada flight” and United online isn’t booking. Is this really real space?

  168. November 7th, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    Brian M. said,

    Getting to Toronto from LAX is turning out to be a bit of a challenge. Hoping to get to Munich for Oktoberfest.

  169. November 7th, 2013 at 9:13 pm

    Kevin said,

    Thanks Lucky, just booked two tickets HKG-BKK (TG F 747), BKK-FRA (TG F A380), FRA-MUC (LH J 321) and then MUC-YYZ (LH F 330) all for 75,000 UA Miles each.

  170. November 7th, 2013 at 9:16 pm

    Joey said,

    @Brian, hope you get to go during Oktoberfest! The Munich FCL has special rubber ducks during that time!

  171. November 7th, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Michael – For some reason it seems Aeroplan is having a hard time confirming the space. United and AviancaTaca are able to book it though, so the space is real. There is an Air Canada flight to Munich as well, so that’s probably what they’re referring to.

  172. November 7th, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Kevin – Congrats! Looks like an awesome itinerary!

  173. November 7th, 2013 at 9:25 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Brian M. – Have you tried looking at connecting in Vancouver? Space is generally good LAX-YVR, and YVR-YYZ is decent as well.

  174. November 7th, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    Michal said,

    Lucky, I know there’s an AC flight. Apparently when they request a seat on LH 495 it comes back with a seat request for the earlier AC flight. Is there anything I can ask them to do?

    Also I called United for another ticket and the agent said he sees I space but no O — and online errors out. Worth calling again?

  175. November 7th, 2013 at 9:31 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Michal – You may want to try just ticketing the YYZ-MUC-YYZ segments online, then calling to add in any other flights.

  176. November 7th, 2013 at 9:40 pm

    Changes to MUC Schedule S2014 - Page 3 - FlyerTalk Forums said,

    […] is a big thread on one of the travel blogs about the YYZ to MUC flight: http://boardingarea.com/onemileatati…-united-miles/ All the United folks are going crazy as this is a way they can book LH F before their huge […]

  177. November 7th, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    jackline said,

    @lucky, i also see some LH FRA-BKK F open up for Fall 2014 as well (booking one as we speak) … maybe Lufthansa’s IT is pulling a SQ circa summer 2012

  178. November 7th, 2013 at 9:47 pm

    MA said,

    lucky, I tried booking Chicago>Toronto?Munich>Kilimanjaro, why is it pricing out to 112k?

  179. November 7th, 2013 at 9:51 pm

    lucky said,

    @ jackline – Excellent! Please let me know if that tickets!

  180. November 7th, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    lucky said,

    @ MA – Sounds like it’s pricing as two awards. Do you have a connection of more than 24 hours on that one-way itinerary?

  181. November 7th, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    Jason said,

    Slightly confused about Gary’s post on this on VFTW:

    “And Lufthansa first class in and out of Munich doesn’t get you the famed ‘First CLass Terminal’ just the very good first class lounge. Most importantly Munich first class passengers are only driven across the tarmac when arriving or departing from a non-gate position. So if your connecting flight beyond Munich leaves from a gate you will have to walk to that gate instead of getting driven there.”

    I was under the impression that FC in *or* out of MUC always got you the Porsche or Maybach transport on the tarmac? What are the actual rules – is it only guaranteed in FRA? In addition, is the FRA FCT really that much better than the MUC FCL?

  182. November 7th, 2013 at 10:08 pm

    jackline said,

    yes, ticketed !! Oct 2014 EWR-UA-FRA-LH-BKK, all in O class =)

    no idea what is going on at LH, but i suspect more routes having availability than just 2

  183. November 7th, 2013 at 10:15 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Jason – The Lufthansa First Class Lounge in Munich is connected to the main terminal, so you’ll only receive car service if you have a remote stand.

    The Frankfurt First Class Terminal is much larger, but the Munich lounge is very nice as well, and has similar bathrooms and catering.

  184. November 7th, 2013 at 10:16 pm

    Andrei said,

    I have a one-way MUC-YYZ booked now. Would I be able to call and change it to a roundtrip or should I cancel it first?

  185. November 7th, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Andrei – You should be able to change it to a roundtrip over the phone.

  186. November 7th, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    Jay K said,

    Could you please tell me why this trip won’t price?
    1 stopover, 2 open jaws.
    What’s wrong? they can’t seem to price it.

  187. November 7th, 2013 at 10:27 pm

    Eric M said,

    I keep getting an error after entering the payment for FRA-MUC-YYZ. Business and First. I have tried multiple days.

  188. November 7th, 2013 at 10:28 pm

    Ricky said,

    Trying to book BKK-ORD via NRT in Sept on new A380 in FC, and every day I check says its sold out. What do you think are the chances it will open up? Attempting to make this part of ORD-YYZ-MUN-FRA-BKK-NRT-ORD route!!

  189. November 7th, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Eric M – You may want to try just ticketing the MUC-YYZ segment online, then calling to add in any other flights. The website is having a rough time, it seems.

  190. November 7th, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    Phil said,

    Lucky thanks for the post. Could one go out to visit München and back to the FCT afterwards?

    Looking at a Flight with a 7 hours stop over.

  191. November 7th, 2013 at 10:32 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Ricky – Tough to say. Space on that route is really competitive, and I generally only see one First class seat, if anything.

  192. November 7th, 2013 at 10:33 pm

    Eric M said,

    I think I will. Every time I keep changing days and connection, it errors out, then the LH business seats disappear from FRA-MUC

  193. November 7th, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Jay K – You can only have one connection greater than 24 hours (your stopover). The overnight in Toronto is problematic, and you can’t have an open-jaw in the middle of your itinerary, as that adds another stopover. I read that as having two stopovers and multiple open-jaws, so I don’t think that will price.

  194. November 7th, 2013 at 10:38 pm

    Jason said,

    @ lucky –

    got it – Car service in MUC only if arriving/departing from a remote stand. Guess with gate assignments constantly being shuffled, it’s completely luck of the draw? Same deal for FRA? Really wanted to get that 3 minute ride in an S-class or Panamera :)

  195. November 7th, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    Jay K said,

    I don’t get it. :(

    How does adding an openjaw in the middle, add another stopover?

    I can remove BDL-YYZ and YYZ-BDL and do that as a separate reservation…BUT she says it still doesn’t price.

  196. November 7th, 2013 at 10:42 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Jason – Yup, exactly. From the Lufthansa First Class Terminal in Frankfurt you will always be driven to the gate, but if you don’t arrive at a remote stand you will be on your own for getting to the Terminal.

  197. November 7th, 2013 at 10:45 pm

    Rookie10 said,

    I’m able to hold first class yyz-muc online but when I called to to purchase and add segments agents tell me that there are no seats avail in first. I can be put on a wait list. June 9th is the date, what gives?

  198. November 7th, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    Phil said,

    Looks like they have a problem… no reservation going on, no booking going on…

    Will they honor it?

  199. November 7th, 2013 at 10:52 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Rookie10 — Hmm, it could be that the space sold out in the meantime on the flight. Does the reservation show confirmed seats on those flights, and when you look online does it make any reference to those segments being waitlisted?

  200. November 7th, 2013 at 10:53 pm

    Phil said,

    Just to be clear, at least now and for the dates I am looking at.

  201. November 7th, 2013 at 10:55 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Jay K — The problem is that your open jaw can only be at your turnaround point. You can’t have an open jaw mid-itinerary.

  202. November 7th, 2013 at 10:56 pm

    James said,

    I’m having the same issue where the website is showing availability but when you click all the way through it gives you an error. On the phone they say there’s no first class available.

  203. November 7th, 2013 at 11:02 pm

    Paul said,

    Octoberfest booked. You are my favorite person on the planet right now

  204. November 7th, 2013 at 11:04 pm

    Rookie10 said,

    Expert flyer shows 3 seats, I put reservations on hold, one complete (I added the segments) and the other YYZ-MUC O on hold. It only shows wait listed in red. The one I completed on hold is on business for 120k. So how’s business class??

  205. November 7th, 2013 at 11:05 pm

    Jay K said,

    Gotcha. I can fly out of a different city/country to my destination…But I can’t fly out from a different city to YET ANOTHER different city.

  206. November 7th, 2013 at 11:22 pm

    Charlie said,

    Perhaps LH and TG are seeing the big booking interest from UA folks and figure why not sell this inventory while they can. Demand will drop after Feb 1 and UA via mileage plus has to be a decent sized customer. Maybe some other airlines will join in on a run on the UA piggy bank!

  207. November 7th, 2013 at 11:27 pm

    Charlie said,

    I’ve booked a trip to KTM/BKK/TPE in F and J, and another trip to PEK/LXA/CTU/ICN in F. All on much better airlines than UA. Smoke ‘em if you got ‘em!

  208. November 7th, 2013 at 11:45 pm

    jackie said,

    Open jar+stop over question — Can I do SFO->YYZ->MUC-> VIE, CDG->MUC->YYZ (stop over) YYZ->SFO?

  209. November 7th, 2013 at 11:46 pm

    lucky said,

    @ jackie — Sure can!

  210. November 7th, 2013 at 11:47 pm

    Ian said,

    Is YYZ-MUC-FRA-DUB a valid routing? Would add a positioning flight from SFO to get to YYZ

  211. November 7th, 2013 at 11:48 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Ian — SFO-YYZ-MUC-FRA-DUB should be a valid one-way.

  212. November 7th, 2013 at 11:49 pm

    Gene said,

    Is this dead?

  213. November 8th, 2013 at 12:06 am

    Flyerdad said,

    Hi Lucky: Great find. Unfortunately, had to change our dates (we originally had first class both ways) and all we can get is business class (so AC from SFO-YYZ, LH YYZ-MUC, LH MUC-YYZ, AC YYZ-SFO). This is late June returning July 11. My question is, if we scored this all using United Miles at saver level during the summer to Europe, should we (me and my son) be grateful? Or is business class with LH not so great that we should let this go and try to book other premium cabins? Your review from SEA-MUC of LH business class was not very enthusiastic. Thanks as always for all your help.

  214. November 8th, 2013 at 12:10 am

    lucky said,

    @ Flyerdad — That’s a great score, in my opinion! Keep in mind you’ll have the new Lufthansa business class, which is a much better hard product. It’s an even better redemption given the devaluation on the horizon.

  215. November 8th, 2013 at 12:13 am

    Jay K said,


    This is what I ended up holding.
    Waiting for the confirmation from my parents, before I go ahead and ticket it.

    What do you think?

    It’s too bad that I’m wasting a stopover in YYZ at the beginning, but there’s no other way to make the connection work.

  216. November 8th, 2013 at 12:16 am

    lucky said,

    @ Jay K — Looks awesome to me!

  217. November 8th, 2013 at 12:19 am

    Noel said,

    WOW! What a deal. I just booked a great trip in first/biz DEN-YYZ-MUC-FRA-BKK-FRA-MUC-YYZ-DEN for just 140k miles. I even had a super helpful United agent. September is going to be great.

    As long as YYZ-MUC-FRA-BKK is all in LH first (minus MUC-FRA) I should be able to access FCT, right?

    Thanks Lucky!! Really helped to burn some UA miles.

  218. November 8th, 2013 at 12:20 am

    lucky said,

    @ Noel — Yep, absolutely can use the FCT. Have a great trip!

  219. November 8th, 2013 at 12:53 am

    Ian said,

    @lucky, YYZ-MUC-FRA-DUB is pricing out at 87.5k and i selected low…whats the best way to book it for the 67.5?

  220. November 8th, 2013 at 12:58 am

    AC said,

    After being on the phone for 90 minutes (including being cut off during ticketing steps with an agent), we are set to go to Thailand with a stopover at FRA. I think we got lucky by getting an agent willing to do 5 segments in one direction. We are doing LAX-YYZ-MUC-FRA(stop)-BKK-KBV(destination) then open jar from BKK-MUC-YYZ-LAX. Can’t wait to try LH F and TG F (A380!).

    I do have a question. When I pull up my itinerary under united.com, everything seems correct. However when I pull up my itinerary under LH or checkmytrip, it shows an extra trip (YYZ-MUC) on a different date. Should I be concerned? Oh by the way, I would like to thank you for the hot tip last year when SQ released F seats that we were able to book SFO-HGK-SIN on all A380′s Suite :)

  221. November 8th, 2013 at 12:59 am

    lucky said,

    @ Ian — If you call they should be able to price it correctly on the phone for 67,500 miles.

  222. November 8th, 2013 at 1:00 am

    lucky said,

    @ AC — Awesome, happy you were able to take advantage of this! For what it’s worth on a roundtrip you’re allowed five segments per direction, so everything is “legal.” I wouldn’t worry about the extra Lufthansa segment. It should fall off the itinerary automatically pretty soon.

  223. November 8th, 2013 at 1:49 am

    jackal said,

    With much patience and tenacity, I booked two one-ways (one there and one back). It’s hard but not impossible.

    Two questions:

    1) I am flying DUB-FRA-MUC-YYZ. I have an overnight (less than 24h) in MUC. Will I still have FCT access in FRA? Any tips to ensure I will (do they need to look my itin up or something)?
    2) After I booked to YYZ, I called to add on YYZ-PHL. The PNR now correctly shows the YYZ-PHL leg, but I never received an email confirmation from UA of the change, and viewing the ticket doesn’t show the last segment. Is the ticket reissue likely just pending and will be processed at some future time, did the agent do something incorrect and forget to reissue the ticket (my CC is showing a $21.80 pending auth, which was the taxes for adding the last segment), or is this normal? And if the latter (and if my ticket is never reissued and fixed to accommodate the last segment), will I have issues when checking in…and should I call UA now to have them fix it?

  224. November 8th, 2013 at 2:03 am

    Ian said,

    The website is showing some phantom availability. Was giving me an error on checkout for multiple dates…had to call and shift dates around to get the two tickets. Right now just booked YYZ-MUC RT…have to figure out a strategy now within the next 24 of what to add to it. To change dates around there has to be 2 LH award first tickets to change to right??

  225. November 8th, 2013 at 2:18 am

    Anonymous said,

    […] […]

  226. November 8th, 2013 at 2:32 am

    lucky said,

    @ jackal — If you’re not flying Lufthansa first class same day then you won’t have FCT access unfortunately.

    As far as your second question goes, it’s pretty normal not to receive an updated email. That being said, if you look at the e-receipt and the segment isn’t there immediately something is probably wrong. I’d recommend calling again and ensuring everything is in order.

  227. November 8th, 2013 at 2:33 am

    lucky said,

    @ Ian — Right, there has to be first class award availability on the flights you want to switch to.

  228. November 8th, 2013 at 2:35 am

    Ian said,

    @Lucky – so when all this availability goes away that could create an issue right?

  229. November 8th, 2013 at 2:36 am

    lucky said,

    @ Ian — Yes, it absolutely will creative an issue if you don’t have the first class dates locked in.

  230. November 8th, 2013 at 2:38 am

    Zach said,

    Lucky, I have speculatively book4r a oneway YYZ-MUC in O today, and I want to add on to the award later (when my Chase miles post).

    What I would like to do is add a DEN-YYZ leg at the beginning (which the computer won’t let me do) and then make the award into a full return from Asia with stopovers and openjaws. I am a United Premier Silver (Gold in two weeks), so I thought I could change awards outside of 21 days with no fees, but is that true if change origin and add a return leg with stopovers/open jaw?

  231. November 8th, 2013 at 2:40 am

    lucky said,

    @ Zach — If you change your origin and destination you’ll have to pay a $50 change fee as a Premier Silver (or $25 when you’re Premier Gold).

  232. November 8th, 2013 at 3:01 am

    Ian said,

    okay @lucky last question…

    can i add the origin and extra stuff where start and end point are set in under 24 hours and then add a stopover later for free since thats not changing origin/destination? or would adding a stopover in the middle after 24 hours trigger a change fee?

  233. November 8th, 2013 at 4:56 am

    Ian said,

    ok i lied, 1 more. Arriving into MUC in F and then taking a flight to FRA the morning arriving in MUC you are saying we would have access to the FCT? the vehicle service and everything? I’m reading that we would only get access to the Welcome lounge.

  234. November 8th, 2013 at 6:09 am

    Ed said,

    Hi Lucky. Thanks for the HT. This has been really fun watching this play out. Can you help with a West coast to MUC itin. I understand that Brussels and Austrian are only bookable by phone. Can you help with a SFO-?in Europe O/W on Aug 6? I don’t have access to the the fancy software.

  235. November 8th, 2013 at 7:42 am

    lucky said,

    @ Ian — The way the computer does it, adding a stopover later will typically trigger the change fee.

    I may have misunderstood you regarding the FCT. I’m saying if you fly FRA-MUC-YYZ you have access. If you fly YYZ-MUC-FRA you wouldn’t have access, assuming you’re terminating in Frankfurt.

  236. November 8th, 2013 at 7:47 am

    lucky said,

    @ Ed — Thanks for the heads up on this! Both Austrian and Brussels should actually show up online. It’s LOT that doesn’t show up.

    As far as space goes, on August 7 I see space San Francisco to Frankfurt nonstop in United first class, and on August 5 I see space San Francisco to Philadelphia to Munich in US Airways business class. That’s the closest fairly direct space that I see to your dates.

  237. November 8th, 2013 at 7:57 am

    mangoceviche said,

    If I start my itinerary in BKK instead to experience the TG spa, would I still get access to FCT? so my itinerary look like this: bkk-fra-muc-yyz-bos. the flight from muc to yyz is the day after arrival in fra.

  238. November 8th, 2013 at 8:00 am

    lucky said,

    @ mangoceviche — If you fly FRA-MUC-YYZ on the same day you would get FCT access in Frankfurt. If you fly FRA-MUC and then MUC-YYZ the next day you wouldn’t get FCT access.

  239. November 8th, 2013 at 8:01 am

    Joediver said,

    Thanks Ben. Booked ORD-YYZ-MUC-LUX and back for June. Now I’m waiting for Christmas 2014 to start opening up. Would be really nice if Lufthansa opened up more again. If not, I’ll be happy to book business before the rates go up.

  240. November 8th, 2013 at 8:04 am

    lucky said,

    @ Joediver — Very nice itinerary! Hope you have a great trip.

  241. November 8th, 2013 at 8:06 am

    mangoceviche said,

    My current itinerary is bos-yyz-muc-fra-bkk. i am spending the day in muc and then flying to fra that night, and continuing on to bkk the following morning. would this be similiar to Ian’s situation (mentioned above) with me terminating in fra since I am not continuing on to elsewhere on LH?

  242. November 8th, 2013 at 8:07 am

    Lantean said,

    according to LH website on July 6 2014, 6 out of 8 F seats MUC-YYZ are taken… you did well Ben!
    i assume i’ll see y’all on that flight? sort of like an OMAAT megado?

  243. November 8th, 2013 at 8:08 am

    lucky said,

    @ mangoceviche — Correct, you’d have access to the FCL in Munich but not the FCT or FCL in Frankfurt.

  244. November 8th, 2013 at 8:09 am

    lucky said,

    @ Lantean — Hah, stay tuned till later today, I actually have a fun analysis of just how many seats we collectively booked. :)

  245. November 8th, 2013 at 8:29 am

    Glenn said,

    If I add/remove a segment going forward, but keep both of my YYZ-MUC and MUC-YYZ flights on LH F, is there any chance that when the ticket gets changed or rebooked that I might lose the LH F segments I have if there is no more availability on united.com?

  246. November 8th, 2013 at 8:31 am

    Lantean said,

    nice, i can’t wait! i’m glad we stuck it to United for all they evil they did to us! ;)

  247. November 8th, 2013 at 8:32 am

    lucky said,

    @ Glenn — Nope, segments should be safe even if you later add more.

  248. November 8th, 2013 at 8:57 am

    THEsocalledfan said,

    Oh boy; I had fun, and combined this with Skypesos for 3 trips:

    I am going to Rome in January. I used 200K Delta miles for my wife and I to book FSD (home)-MSP-JFK-FCO-JFK-MSP stopover MSP-ATL-SAV. (admit, I had to find a way home from MSP when coming home, but easy with flying blue, no?)

    Now, I have new United award for Lufthansa FC for 270K United miles is: SAV-CLT-ORD stopover ORD-YYZ-MUC-PRG have to get back to MUC then MUC-YYZ-ORD. (could not find a low mile flight home, or that would have been legal)

    It is incredibly easy for me to get to Chicago using 9000 BA Avios round trip, so used that to get back and forth……..

    So, I get three first class trips for the price of two!!!! He, he, he…..and I needed to unload those united miles…..with my Delta status, the Delta miles have become incrementally more valuable.

  249. November 8th, 2013 at 9:06 am

    Rookie10 said,

    Booked one way rdu-clt-yyz-muc-icn all on bus. Was not able secure first. Showed wait listed. Priced out at 67.5 x2 passengers. Does that sound right. Why wouldn’t it be 50k each? Thanks.

  250. November 8th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Star Alliance Award Bookings Using US Airways Miles - FAQ and Help Thread [MERGED] - Page 1243 - FlyerTalk Forums said,

    […] through lucky9876coins's booking agency, since he was the one who clued people in on that availability, and he's the only one I know who's been able to get LH F through US miles… (Literally nobody […]

  251. November 8th, 2013 at 9:56 am

    ralf said,

    No idea why you keep overhyping LH F.
    Food is awful, service used to be excellent but is hit and miss these days.

    Contents of amenity kit is rubbish. Pyjama trousers are rubbish.
    FCT is nice, but anyway just a lounge. FCT relaxation room is a joke because extremely noisy (you can hear every single footstep amplified).

    Who cares a bout a 2min car drive to the plane?

    I honestly had flights in C that were better.

  252. November 8th, 2013 at 10:27 am

    Mike said,

    Thanks Lucky! I was planning on using United miles to book LH first for my honeymoon next summer and was really bummed out with the recent devaluation, which would have ruined my plans. Thankfully I read your blog multiple times a day and was able to pounce on this last night. I booked two tickets for FCO-MUC-YYZ-ATL to add an amazing return flight experience for my future wife. Just a question, there was no business class space on the AC flight YYZ-ATL, yet the cabin seems quite open. In your experience, does AC typically open up more business class space as the flight draws near? Thanks again, this totally made my day last night.

  253. November 8th, 2013 at 10:29 am

    lucky said,

    @ Rookie10 – Sometimes the website has issues pricing complex itineraries, but if your destination is Seoul the price should have been 60k each for the one-way in Business. If you call they should be able to fix it for you.

  254. November 8th, 2013 at 10:44 am

    Lucy said,

    @Lucky I booked YYZ-MUC one way 4 tickets 1st class for 270000 miles but the fees and taxes came to $463 for the 4 tickets $115.75 per ticket although it was showing $52 per ticket, does it look right to you or do i need to call United to fix.? Thank you for this great deal.

  255. November 8th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Lucy said,

    @Lucky, sorry, one more question, how do I book the Lufthansa seats?

  256. November 8th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    Lucy said,

    I meant to reserve the Lufthansa seats—


  257. November 8th, 2013 at 11:09 am

    TJ said,


    SFO > YYZ > MUC (stop) > FRA > BKK, BKK > FRA > YYZ > SFO for 140k. I’ve only got I from FRA to SFO, but thrilled to book this before the devaluation. Thanks for the heads up.

  258. November 8th, 2013 at 11:32 am

    Why I Did Not Bite on Yesterday’s Lufthansa First Class Availability - Marshall Jackson on Travel said,

    […] on the return so I could try the famous Lufthansa ground services once again. Lucky’s revelation on amazing award availability on two new North American routes wetted my appetite even further. And […]

  259. November 8th, 2013 at 11:37 am

    lucky said,

    @ Lucy – If you have your Lufthansa record locator you can reserve seats on their website. Either United or Lufthansa should be able to provide you with the locator.

  260. November 8th, 2013 at 11:38 am

    lucky said,

    @ TJ – Excellent! Have a great trip!

  261. November 8th, 2013 at 11:39 am

    William said,

    Was just able to book SEA-YYZ-MUC-FRA-BKK-CDG-MUC-SEA. Cant wait to experience LH F and TG F A380! just wanted to say thank you Lucky, your work is really appreciated.

  262. November 8th, 2013 at 11:42 am

    TopGunner said,

    A bit off topic, but since we are maximizing LH enjoyment and not to mention de Deutsche lebensstil, I might as well ask would you rather drive from Munich to Frankfurt or just take the flight? Munich to Frankfurt should give you the choice of enjoying some long stretches of Autobahn driving or you can take the “Romantic road”.

  263. November 8th, 2013 at 11:43 am

    troy said,

    Wow lucky is the most popular thread you have ever had? it has exploded! Quick question-AFTER 2/1 -If I have ord-fra on united F can I switch to ord-fra on LH F if the avialbility is still there within two weeks and just pay the $100 change fee per ticket? the date would not change. thanks

  264. November 8th, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    Jimmy said,

    Noooo, is this deal dead?

  265. November 8th, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Heta said,

    Is routing from NRT to MUC via YYZ stopover possible with United or USAir miles?

  266. November 8th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    Patrick said,

    If my Itinerary is something like YYZ-MUC-FRA-BKK, and YYZ-MUC on LH F, MUC-FRA on LH C, and FRA-BKK on TG F, am I eligible to use the FCT (not the FCL, but the FCT) at FRA?

  267. November 8th, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    AJK said,

    Wow. The amount of interest in this post is staggering. Just goes to show how many UA/UR miles people are rushing to burn. Unreal.

  268. November 8th, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    Jonathan said,

    United confirmation email said Flight operated by THAI AIRWAYS” but reservation on United.com website show correct info (Operated by Lufthansa.) which one is right?

  269. November 8th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    jackie said,

    I originally had SFO-YYZ-MUC, MUC-YYZ-SFO. When I changed it SFO-YYZ-MUC-VIE, MUC-YYZ-SFO, $24.10 added to the fee. Does it sound right? thanks!

  270. November 8th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Flyerdad said,

    Hi Lucky. I just want to thank you for all the help you’ve provided to the points and miles community. You answered my question last night around midnight and it appears you’ve been going non-stop (no pun intended) since then. This is such a great example of travel blogging that really makes a difference. No need to respond-just thanks again.

  271. November 8th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    Miles in a Minute + Free Award Wallet Upgrades - Just Another Points Traveler said,

    […] on Lufthansa to Munich from Toronto just in time for opening weekend at Oktoberfest 2014 (thanks to One Mile at a Time for letting us know about that). I know that’s a long ways ahead, but I really enjoyed my […]

  272. November 8th, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    jackie said,

    Definitely echo what Flyerdad above! BIG THANK YOU, Lucky!

  273. November 8th, 2013 at 12:46 pm

    AJK said,

    @Jackie –

    Yes, more airport taxes for another stop. Makes sense.

  274. November 8th, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    Ian said,

    @lucky to clarify for the FCT…I’m booked YYZ-MUC in F, the same day i arrive in MUC I’m looking at MUC-FRA-DUB. Do i Get FCT access or do i need to make the FRA layover happen on the return trip DUB-FRA-MUC-YYZ to get it?

  275. November 8th, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    jackie said,

    @AJK Thank you! This is such a great community. Unfortunately, I am just too inexperienced to contribute :) I will definitely do whenever I can as it goes…

  276. November 8th, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    lucky said,

    @ William — Awesome itinerary, have a great trip!

  277. November 8th, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    AJK said,

    @Ian –

    You won’t get FCT access on your outbound, but you can get it on your inbound, so long as your MUC-YYZ in F leaves the same day as your FRA-MUC in J.

  278. November 8th, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    lucky said,

    @ TopGunner — Frankly my first choice would probably be the train. I like driving in Germany, but it’s a bit on the long side for me. Also keep in mind that if you’re exploring the countryside you’ll do a lot of driving anyway. The Autobahn isn’t nearly as exciting as it used to be given the amount of construction going on and speed restrictions that come with it.

  279. November 8th, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    lucky said,

    @ troy — I believe changing airlines would trigger the new award pricing unfortunately.

  280. November 8th, 2013 at 12:53 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Heta — You can route from NRT to YYZ via MUC, but not from NRT to MUC via YYZ.

  281. November 8th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Patrick — No you’re not. You have to be departing on a Lufthansa family carrier to use the FCT.

  282. November 8th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Jonathan — You have nothing to worry about, United’s website is notoriously glitchy.

  283. November 8th, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    Curtis said,

    Looks dead to me.. cannot find any more 1st at all.

  284. November 8th, 2013 at 12:55 pm

    lucky said,

    @ jackie — Happy you were able to book! Yes, that sounds correct, as European airports have fairly high taxes.

  285. November 8th, 2013 at 12:56 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Flyerdad — Really appreciate the kind words, thanks so much. Finally did get a few hours of sleep just now.

    This is what makes what I do exciting. :)

  286. November 8th, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Z said,

    Can LH new J be booked from MUC-YYZ with USDM?

  287. November 8th, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Z — Unfortunately it seems US Airways can’t see any of this space. :(

  288. November 8th, 2013 at 1:00 pm

    Curtis said,

    Take that back you guys are booking it all up! Finally found one on 7/23/14. You guys are fast! :P

  289. November 8th, 2013 at 1:09 pm

    jackie said,

    For air Canada, can I do seat assignment online? I was able to do seat assignment online for Lufhansa based on Lucky’s pointer earlier. Just called air Canada and it is 45+ minutes hold..Ouch. BTW, Lucky, thanks to you, I was able to book 4 first class tickets, although SFO-YYZ does not have saver Business awards available for all of us, but I was at least able to get two on the return flight! This is my family’s first international travel in first class! It’ll be a blast ;-) Thanks again!

  290. November 8th, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    lucky said,

    @ jackie — Awesome to get a family of four in first class internationally! Ridiculously enough if the ticket wasn’t issued through Air Canada you have to call for seat assignments. :(

  291. November 8th, 2013 at 2:58 pm

    jpgisbd said,

    Thanks again, Lucky. Was able to book FRA-MUC-YYZ-ORD-LAX as a one way. Not enough United miles or UR to do round trip but wanted to experience the FCT before it is totally unrealistic with United miles. Singapore suites and now this. All I can say is, Thank You!

  292. November 8th, 2013 at 2:59 pm

    mangoceviche said,

    will this work: bos-yyz-muc-bkk-syd? also, my friend wants to put on hold yyz-muc while she search for the return flight on cathay. if she cancels within 24 hours, will she get her tax refund to her credit card? the reason i ask is because the agent who changed my ticket issued me a credit voucher for the tax difference. it was a small amount so i didn’t push the matter.

  293. November 8th, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Jason said,

    wow, for once my procrastination didn’t actually bite me in the @ss – I think I may have just snagged the final 2 seats in July :)

    Doing YYZ-MUC LH F, then MUC-FRA LH F/J (it just lists 2 classes, so I’m hoping this is “first” to them?), then FRA-BKK TG F.

    A little bummed that I won’t be able to enjoy the LH FCT in FRA – guess I just get the lounge (and possibly car service if we arrive at a remote stand)? Anybody know if the same goes for Thai’s lounge in BKK? i.e. can I partake in their awesome ground product if I’m just arriving there (rather than departing)?

    ‘lucky’ is truly a misnomer – it’s all SKILLS :-)

  294. November 8th, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    Ian said,


    just want to clarify for the FCT before my 24 hours is up…I’m booked YYZ-MUC in F, the same day i arrive in MUC I’m looking at MUC-FRA-DUB. Do i Get FCT access or do i need to make the FRA layover happen on the return trip DUB-FRA-MUC-YYZ to get it?

  295. November 8th, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    Ian said,

    Going to do a stopover in London on the back half…for adding an infant to the ticket (under 2) what fare is the 10% based off of when since i booked an award ticket>?

  296. November 8th, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    lucky said,

    @ jpgisbd — Awesome, enjoy your trip! :)

  297. November 8th, 2013 at 3:40 pm

    lucky said,

    @ mangoceviche — You unfortunately can’t route from the US to Australia via Europe and Asia. If you cancel within 24 hours you do indeed get the taxes back.

  298. November 8th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Jason — Awesome! If you’re arriving in Thai first class in Bangkok you’ll be picked up at the gate and driven through immigration in a golf cart. It’s a nice experience!

    If you’re connecting to Thai in Frankfurt, though, you won’t be picked up by car typically.

  299. November 8th, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Ian — You do get access, since you’re arriving in Lufthansa first class same day and connecting to another Lufthansa flight.

  300. November 8th, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Ian — It’s based on 10% of the full fare cost of the cabin you’re booked in.

  301. November 8th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    Kurt said,

    Is this gone now? United.bomb isn’t showing any LH F on YYZ-MUC anymore :(

  302. November 8th, 2013 at 4:38 pm

    mangoceviche said,

    Thanks Lucky. Back in the days, I go after cheap fares and flights with the shortest connection time. Ever since I discovered your blog, I’ve been chasing rubber duckies, rimowa kits, and shanghai tang pajamas. you’ve corrupted me and i’ve never been happier about flying! :)

  303. November 8th, 2013 at 4:53 pm

    Jason said,

    I love this thread :)

    Looking forward to Thai first class on the A380!

    If making BKK my destination, do I still get to grab breakfast/lunch in the FC lounge and get the free massage? (6:25am arrival) Wondering if I should change to TG FC on the A340 in order to arrive at 1pm – hmmm…air product or ground product…such hard choices ;-)

  304. November 8th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Kurt — Still seeing some space from Munich to Toronto. Rather limited in the other direction.

  305. November 8th, 2013 at 10:34 pm

    Jason said,

    Grrrr….dang outsourced UA call center agents are testing my patience :)

    Can anyone confirm this is an accurate routing? I’m 99.999% sure it’s not an “around the world” booking like the first 2 agents tried to tell me, but the part I’m not positive on is whether or not I can traverse back through BKK on my return (since it’s my destination). The first agent told me it was “backtracking, which is prohibited and must be priced as 2 awards”, and while the second agent didn’t balk at it, she insisted on it being an around the world trip (who knows if once I got an agent who finally realized it’s *not* an “around the world trip”, they wouldn’t then complain about hitting BKK the 2nd time). Frustrating!

    Here is the departure portion I have booked so far:


    No stopovers, BKK is my destination and I want to make it the start of an open jaw, with my return starting in DPS. Here’s the return I’m attempting to add but not having luck thus far:


    One stopover, DPS is the closing of the aforementioned open jaw, and I confirmed with the agent that I can fly into JFK and depart from EWR less than 24 hours later and it is just a normal leg (not an open jaw since they’re considered co-terminals?). I got pushback for traversing BKK the 2nd time – I can’t seem to find anything one way or another in my research on whether it’s legal or not.


    Still lovin this thread :)


  306. November 8th, 2013 at 10:37 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Jason — You can do five segments per direction, so TPA-YYZ-MUC-FRA-BKK-DPS should be allows as an outbound, assuming there aren’t any more connections than that. Then on the return DPS-BKK-HKG-TPE-JFK/EWR-TPA would be legal. So as long as you keep it to five segments in each direction you should be fine.

  307. November 8th, 2013 at 10:47 pm

    Jason said,

    @ lucky – thanks, I was almost positive on it being legal. Frustrating to have to play whack-a-mole with the agents – my wife is just shaking her head in the living room listening to me play the game :)

    And just to confirm – nothing has changed in the last day to make this routing a UA “around the world” trip that has to go to their “special desk” to ticket, right? Both agents I talked to put me on hold a few times and also sadly sounded like they were very confident (I guess on the surface one would *assume* since you’re circling the globe it would be, but as far as their routing rules go it’s still just a SE Asia award, correct?).

    Thanks again so much!!


  308. November 8th, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    Ian said,

    Finally got the last booked. YYZ-MUC-FRA-DUB on the outbound and LHR-MUC-YYZ coming back. The DUB-LHR segment was having problems so she put a note in my record to not charge when i try calling back tomorrow to add it. Couldnt get a west coast to yyz round trip to work out with it, so will just book a separate ticket for that, most likely using a companion pass. great tip lucky, thanks!

  309. November 9th, 2013 at 12:16 am

    lucky said,

    @ Jason — That’s correct, nothing has changed. You’ll just want to hang up and call again.

  310. November 9th, 2013 at 4:06 am

    John said,

    I did some modifications on my original booking, but when I click on “View Receipt” It shows the old routes. Should I be worry?

  311. November 9th, 2013 at 4:15 am

    lucky said,

    @ John — The e-receipt should be updated almost immediately, so I’d call and follow up.

  312. November 9th, 2013 at 5:39 am

    Ian said,

    @John definitely call back. I made 3 changes in the 24 hour period and every time i was instantly emailed a new receipt with new itinerary and it showed up on the website as well.

    @lucky can’t wait to see the numbers you are gathering of how many booked. I booked 2x FC

  313. November 9th, 2013 at 7:52 am

    Jim said,

    A one-way NRT-BKK-MUC-YYZ-SEA prices out at 100,000 miles on the UA reservation agent’s terminal, and with the supervisor this agent checked with. Is this figure correct? The NRT-BKK and YYZ-SEA legs are in business, and the BKK-MUC and MUC-YYZ legs are in first. All connections are under 24 hours. All legs are at the Saver award level.

  314. November 9th, 2013 at 8:09 am

    lucky said,

    @ Jim — So this is an area where I think United has updated their rules. The issue isn’t the number of segments, but rather that you’re transitting Europe and Southeast Asia enroute to Japan. So you’re being charged for a Japan to South Asia business class award (30,000 miles) and a South Asia to US first class award (70,000 miles)

  315. November 9th, 2013 at 8:19 am

    Jana said,

    Thanks very much for sharing this amazing deal. Was working on getting tickets the night before the news broke, lucky for me, my computer “blew up” and since it was late at night, my husband shooed me off to bed. So this timing was perfect as we snagged two FC tickets the next day. This will be our first international trip in FC.

  316. November 9th, 2013 at 8:22 am

    Lantean said,


    same for me, the “view receipt” only shows the flights I originally booked online, not the flights I added over the phone… not sure what’s up with that… but I called Air Canada to select seats and they saw my reservations correctly… Also Lufthansa website is showing the segments on LH and TG… so I am not really worried… do you guys really think we need to call?

  317. November 9th, 2013 at 9:11 am

    Jim said,


    That explains it. Still worth the additional 30k as it sets me up for F on TG (and the the lounge/spa in BKK!) and F on LH across the pond. Thanks for pointing out this great deal.

  318. November 9th, 2013 at 10:07 am

    How Many Lufthansa First Class Seats Did We Book? - One Mile at a Time - One Mile at a Time said,

    […] Thursday I shared the news that Lufthansa seemed to be releasing first class award space on their new Toronto to Munich route to partner airlines for virtually every single day in both business and first class. Every day that […]

  319. November 9th, 2013 at 10:36 am

    William said,

    Woah, well that was scary for a sec…just a heads up to everyone.. I was just looking over my reservation to make sure I didn’t want to make any last changes within the fee free window when I realized in the confirmation e-mail that it said my YYZ-MUC was on an AC ERJ-190 in I. I called in to make sure this was just a mistake on my e-mail but sure enough the united agent told me that the flight was being shown as operated by an ERJ-190 and I was indeed in business. Luckily there was still O space available and she made the change but I’m just warning to check over your itineraries carefully… it might be important to note that my positioning flight from Seattle is on this exact equipment type so that may have somehow interrupted the system or something? anyone else with a similar problem?

  320. November 9th, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    Matt said,

    Youre awesome- just snagged 3 1st seats MUC-YYZ in June!

    Super excited! Hopefully they like kids up there….

  321. November 9th, 2013 at 3:28 pm

    Ian said,

    mine shows up like that to in the email, it shows the flight on whatever your previous flight to MUC or YYZ is…shows up fine on the LH website and on the UA website it just has a blank for type aircraft.

    I’m sure it’s fine because i was able to select my seats on the A330 on the LH website

  322. November 9th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

    AJK said,

    @Lucky –

    You wrote that @Ian *would* have access to the FCT when asked about the below routing:

    “just want to clarify for the FCT before my 24 hours is up…I’m booked YYZ-MUC in F, the same day i arrive in MUC I’m looking at MUC-FRA-DUB. Do i Get FCT access or do i need to make the FRA layover happen on the return trip DUB-FRA-MUC-YYZ to get it?”

    From the LH site and FT, it doesn’t look like he’d get:

    “(1) Access to the First Class Terminal at Frankfurt Airport is only possible with a confirmed same-day departing First Class flight on Lufthansa or SWISS. . . . Access to the First Class Terminal is not permitted for arriving passengers.”

    It looks to me he’d only get it on the return, when he departs MUC in LH F on the same day as an arrival in FRA…

  323. November 9th, 2013 at 4:36 pm

    Ian said,

    @AJK I really hope that isn’t right. I only booked the FRA layover on the way in and my 24 free change window has already passed. I’m hoping the arriving passengers part is for passengers terminating in frankfurt not connecting….but @lucky would really like some clarification on this

  324. November 9th, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    Jason said,

    @ Ian –

    Per my understanding (which certainly could be incorrect), if you are arriving LH and departing LH FRA on the same day, you would get FCT access. In my case, I’m arriving in MUC (via LH), then the next day taking LH from MUC-FRA, then that same day taking TG from FRA-BKK – even if I had it all the same day I don’t believe I’d get access to the FCT as even though my arrival is LH FC, my departure is TG FC. But I’d get FCL access in both MUC and FRA (I think).

    Not the end of the world though – from what I’ve read the FCL in MUC and FRA is nearly as good as FRA’s FCT, albeit not *quite* as exclusive.

  325. November 9th, 2013 at 4:59 pm

    Ian said,

    I hope that is the case, I’m arriving LH F in MUC that morning and connecting in FRA to DUB the same day. I hope it works that way because in order to get it on the way back I’d have to overnight in FRA and lose a day in London.

  326. November 9th, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    John said,

    I can see my updated itinerary after clicking on “Add E-mail Address and Request Receipt”

  327. November 9th, 2013 at 7:57 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Ian @ AJK – Jason is correct, as long as you have a same day connection to a Lufthansa group carrier you should have access.

  328. November 9th, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    AJK said,

    @Lucky — just personal experience? Doesn’t seem like he should officially have access acc. LH.com.

  329. November 9th, 2013 at 10:50 pm

    lucky said,

    @ AJK — Have done exactly that a dozen times before. As long as you have a confirmed same day Lufthansa first class boarding pass and are connecting to a Lufthansa group flight you get access to the FCT.

  330. November 10th, 2013 at 5:47 am

    Lantean said,


    that worked, thanks.

  331. November 10th, 2013 at 9:57 am

    Glenn said,

    I want to change my current reservation from SFO-YYZ-MUC//FRA-MUC-YYZ-SFO to SFO-YYZ-MUC-ZAG-PUY (destination)
    PUY-ZAG-DBV (stopover)
    DBV-FRA-MUC-YYZ-SFO (origin)

    Would this be valid routing?

  332. November 10th, 2013 at 11:21 am

    lucky said,

    @ Glenn – I think that’s likely too many segments, though in theory it might still price.

  333. November 10th, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    Jaggerfoo said,

    How many times do you have to call back to get a United agent that knows how to book this route FRA-MUC-YYZ-LAX, which is wide open for the dates I checked, but First Class only for the MUC-YYZ segment?

    Online: Booked First Class MUC-YYZ
    1st United Agent: Could not book since only Business was available on the FRA-MUC and YYZ-LAX segments.

    2nd United Agent Booked my intended one-way:
    FRA-MUC-YYZ-LAX and told me MUC-YYZ was First Class.

    I looked online and all flight including MUC-YYZ were business class.

    Sunday agents?

    I’m within the 24 hour window, can I cancel everything with no cost, or shohuld I keep trying?

  334. November 10th, 2013 at 12:41 pm

    CL said,

    @jaggerfoo i booked VIE-MUC-YYZ-LAX both yesterday and today. didn’t have a problem on any of my attempts. keep trying i guess?

  335. November 10th, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    Jaggerfoo said,

    Looks like user error on my part – it’s my first try at this sort of thing. I was patient with the agents and the third one informed me that I initially booked business class (yikes) MUC-YYZ, instead of first, which was the cause of my problem. Things change rapidly I am learning.

    In looking for a another date, I found one Business-First-Business and when I had the agent change it the Business YYZ-LAX disappeared, so I settled for AC economy.

    I have more time, so I’ll look around or keep checking for a Business Saver Award to open up (ExpertFlyer is no longer useful for this).

    Now I have to figure out how to get to EU.

    Anyways thanks Lucky you’re top notch, I always mention to others that you are among the best travel authorities on the internet.

  336. November 10th, 2013 at 2:57 pm

    Tom said,

    Jason said “Per my understanding (which certainly could be incorrect), if you are arriving LH and departing LH FRA on the same day, you would get FCT access.” This is not my experience. I flew LH F dfw-fra and then LH fra-ath in C and was told no for the FCT because I was not flying F fra-ath despite the fact that I had just arrived on LH F. YMMV

  337. November 10th, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Tom — Who told you that? Did you go to the FCT and you were turned away, or were you told by someone else?

  338. November 10th, 2013 at 3:33 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Jaggerfoo — Happy you figured out the problem!

  339. November 11th, 2013 at 1:26 am

    thanh said,

    Have the FC seats for YYZ-MUC dried up? Can’t find one in Sep and Oct 2014 anymore…

  340. November 11th, 2013 at 2:14 am

    myr said,

    got xxx-YYZ-MUC r/t in F for 2 pax, then continuing on MUC-BKK weeks later for others on TG. for a simple YYZ-MUC-YYZ in LH F, if MUC is final destination, do i get access to FCL in MUC? i have read conflicting reports on that…? had a friend last year arriving in MUC on LH F, boarding pass and no onward connection, he could access MUC LH FCL. Now?

  341. November 11th, 2013 at 2:15 am

    myr said,

    oops- meant access for arrival- not departure. yes or nada?

  342. November 11th, 2013 at 5:56 am

    lucky said,

    @ thanh — Still see some dates with space from Munich to Toronto, but not much in the other direction.

  343. November 11th, 2013 at 5:57 am

    lucky said,

    @ myr — Yes, in practice you can use the Munich FCL on arrival without an onward connection.

  344. November 11th, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Rose said,


    I want to book Lufthansa first class seats using United miles for a flight at FRA tomorrow. It’s currently available on UA’s website.

    But a United rep told me it’s less than 24 hours in Europe now, and it needs 24 hours in advance to confirm the flight.

    She said LH may say no such booking once I get to the airport.

    Is it true?

  345. November 11th, 2013 at 5:47 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Rose — The agent is wrong, I’d recommend hanging up and calling again.

  346. November 12th, 2013 at 11:29 am

    Glenn said,

    @ lucky Thanks for all of your help! I wanted to give an update, I was able to changing my reservation to the following:

    SFO-YYZ-MUC-ZAG (open-jaw/stopover)

    Agent was able to book it with no problems.

  347. November 14th, 2013 at 11:26 am

    FMF said,


    just wondering if anyone else’s ticket hasn’t been ticketed yet. I finalized my booking last week Friday/Saturday and they told me it would take 24 hours for them to ticket it. Miles have still not been deducted from my account but I was able to reserve seats for the UA and LH segments.

    Routing is (SFO – YEG in XN, rest in I):

    SFO – YEG – YYZ – MC – DUS
    TXL – FRA – MAD
    MAD – MUC – YYZ – SFO

    Is there anything I can do to expedite the ticketing?


  348. November 14th, 2013 at 11:31 am

    lucky said,

    @ FMF — That’s definitely odd, it should have ticketed by now. I’d recommend calling back and following up, as it shouldn’t take that long.

  349. November 14th, 2013 at 11:33 am

    Jason said,

    @ FMF – I’d definitely call in, that does not seem right. Mine was ticketed within a few minutes (and each time I called in within the 24 hour change window to change it, the updated tickets came in under 10 minutes). Hopefully they didn’t release your seats, as they normally only hold a reservation prior to ticketing for 24 hours!

  350. November 14th, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    FMF said,

    Thanks guys!

    I just called United and apparently there was an internal booking engine problem which prevented the ticketing to be completed. The agent had to re-enter everything manually again (took 30 minutes) and then she was able to ticket it. Just received my final confirmation and miles were also deducted.

    My personal assumption is that there was a problem with the XN connecting flight SFO – YEG (I don’t have any status with UA) and me trying to use my Chase Sapphire Preferred instead of my MileaguePlus card for the fees. A previous rep said it was going through with the CSP too, which apparently was wrong.

    Next time I know that I should call them earlier, but it all worked out. Too bad I didn’t have the miles to fly in O, but that’s life :)

  351. November 21st, 2013 at 8:31 pm

    Ursula said,

    I’m trying to book 2 LH first class tickets using United miles, but only succeeded 1 so far. As days approach, on ANA search tool I can see there are seats available on later days.

    I’m anxious. Does that mean the chance for getting the 2nd ticket isn’t high? From seat chart of the 1st ticket, there are only 2 seats – me and another – occupied (out of 8)! Why doesn’t LH open more seats?! What’s my chance?

  352. November 21st, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    Ursula said,

    Would the recent comments from LH CEO affect our redemption? I’m looking for LH 418 on 12/3.

  353. November 22nd, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    lucky said,

    @ Ursula — Lufthansa is good about opening up more space as the departure date approaches. They just seem to hold it back till closer and closer till arrival, so I’d suggest continuing to monitor closely.

  354. November 26th, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    Trev said,

    I’m seeing no seats all summer/fall for YYZ to MUN – - is that correct? They’ve all been taken? Was checking ANA. Thanks!

  355. November 27th, 2013 at 10:13 am

    lucky said,

    @ Trev — You’ll want to use the United website to check. Still seeing some business class space but nothing in first class.

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